Sta.sh
The general points I try to leave out for people often get eclipsed by larger journal entries, so I'm going to start putting that first.
Are you REALLY Ian Flynn? The comic guy?
Yes I am. You can check out my website and my body of work at www.BumbleKing.com
Awesome! I love your art in the comics!
That's flattering - but I don't do the art. I'm the writer. I compose the manuscripts the art team uses to produce the book. I've done concept art, though. Some you can find here on dA, some you can find in the graphic novel collections. I'm a decent doodler, but I leave the REAL art to the skilled professionals.
Read my fan-fic! Look at my fan-art! Use my fan-concept!
No, nope, nuh-uh. This would open me up to allegations of intellectual theft. There's a lot of really creative fans out there, and they produce a lot of cool stuff. What if I accidentally re-used someone else's idea down the road? Some folks would be flattered, others would be enraged I "stole" from them. For my protection - and to protect the fandom - I limit any fan-material to fan-art of official characters.
I want to talk to you!
I wish I could keep in touch with everyone, but I really don't have the time. Your best bet is to voice your thoughts on my forum - www.BumbleKing.com/forum. Comments and notes through dA will be read, but I don't know when, and I don't know if I'll reply. I can only keep up so many avenues of correspondence, y'know?
So... why are you on dA then?
Mostly to keep up with old friends, some artists I like, and to share some concept art from time to rare time.
I love the comics! I share them with my friends on dA!
The enthusiasm is appreciated, but you're breaking the law. People have to buy the books to get the content. That money becomes profit for Archie and ensures they keep producing the book and I keep my job. Putting up scans for free loses Archie money. And there's the whole illegal angle. So if you've got full scans up, I'd appreciate you taking them down. (Not like I can do anything about it, but still...)
I HATE you.
Sorry to hear that. Say what you will, but keep it civil. If you decide to be vulgar and/or profane, I'm hiding your comment. It'll stay there - you'll know I'll have read it - but I won't force other people to endure your foul language.
Right, so, there's been a lot of talk and discussion on Sally's redesign. Some of it has been good: folks understanding the situation, the thinking behind it, and the over-all nature of the book. There's also been some bad: LOTS of rumors growing out of control, and a lot of what I've said being misinterpreted. And some of that is, ultimately, my fault. I can't talk about a lot of what's going on behind the scenes or what our long-term plans are, and so my vagueness is causing confusion. So here's some added info that will have to be taken at face value, and then I've got to drop the topic. I don't want to make a mess of things.
Sally! WHY?!
I can't really comment on it much right now since it's only a rough teaser image and part of a larger game plan. But suffice it to say: Sally (and the SatAM cast) are old, out-dated, niche characters. If they're to survive, they need to mesh with the way the Sonic franchise looks today. There's a lot of rumors flying around (some hilarious, some baffling) so stop to ask where's the source of someone's rumor is. If "they heard" it's bunkus. If "Ian said!" they better have a link.
Just keep these things in mind:
- does she still have her auburn hair? Yes.
- does she still have a vest? Yes.
- does she still have boots? Yes.
- is she still a brown chipmunk? Yes.
Pants aren't going ruin her character. She'd be a pretty shallow, terrible character if that were true.
Sally's now going to be younger/immature/too happy/too different/not enough different
Once again - this is rough concept art meant as a teaser. It is not meant to unify the entirety of her subplot into a single image. When we revealed the original Mecha Sally design last year, did it betray her redesign, weaponization, and entire subplot? Of course not. I can see where folks spinning out their theories, but it's mostly conjecture. These "facts" are all fan-theory at this point.
Yeah, well, the reveal ruined the surprise!
I'd say "yeah, well, you're the one who looked" but this is the internet. Dodging bullets is easier than dodging spoilers. But, again, when we did the teaser reveal of Mecha Sally, did that spoil the entirety of her subplot? I'd think not, given it's still going on. Does this one teaser say when, how, and at what cost she'll change back? Nope. And c'mon - who seriously thought she wouldn't change back? The alternatives would be to keep her a robot (which would wear out the novelty) or kill her. Look at the explosive reactions to her getting a design change. I think the internet would explode if we'd killed her.
You're just trying to kill SatAM forever you hateful SEGA-lover!
No. If I wanted to kill that aspect of the franchise, it'd be dead. I could've wiped it out at "Genesis." I could have Dr. Eggman nuke them all in one panel and never speak of it again. These characters have survived solely thanks to the Archie books, I'm a fan of them, and I'd like to preserve them for as long as I can - however I can.
Is this set in stone? For sure? I want to rejoice/lament/bomb your house
I honestly don't know. I like it just fine, but there's been a LOT of scrutiny, and I think some folks have made some good and/or interesting points. And I'm not the only one who listens to fan-input. So maybe it will be tweaked. Or maybe this is the final design. You'll have to wait and see.
Why all the random game tie-ins? Why interrupt it with the crossover?
You know I have no control over that, right? I just write the stories. I have a lot of creative freedom, but these properties don't belong to me. When SEGA or Capcom says "Do this story for us, and do it now" that's what happens. That's just the nature of the business. I'm not the big decision maker - I'm just part of the process.
Can't you just tell them "No, not right now?"
Sure we could. And then we'd all be fired and the comics would be canceled. I much prefer to have fun side-stories and awesome crossovers instead, don't you?
Oh, and one more...
Are the new clothes coming from parental complaints over Sally's nakedness?
For pity's sake no! Yes, there are people out there who would object, but they are of the smallest minority (and need a new hobby). People getting hot and bothered about "nude" cartoon animals (both for and against) are the furthest thing from my mind. These aren't fully realize anthropomorphic entities, they're colorful cartoons with passing likenesses to human anatomy. For the love all things sensible, would somebody think it racy if I put a couple of parentheses next to each other? ( ( - woo! Scandalous!
Is there a level of hypocrisy in how nudity is treated between male and female cartoon characters? Sure. Is it unique to SONIC? Not by a long shot. Folks can debate all they want about the morality or political repercussions, but on our end it's very simple: SONIC-females are fully clothed, ergo Sally now wears clothes.
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NOTE ME ON :iconbattyscomms:. I won't take any orders otherwise.
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But it will always mean desire. So how can this negative quality affect our artistic health?
Doctor Who - Happy Valentines by 
ebateSOPA_011712 and this website has a lot of information on how to protest against it http://americancensorship.org/ The fight is not over yet!
Stay awesome Ian, I turn into a kid again every time I see an Archie envelope in my mailbox... speaking of which I'm still very impatiently waiting for the next issue.
Glad you're enjoying the series!
in order of appearance *ahem* Julie-Su, Saffron Bee, Hershey Cat, Sasha Cat, Penelope Platypus, Dulcy, Erma Ermine, E.V.E and Nicolette Weasel.
This is only to the best of my knowledge, admitted, as the might of been "clothed" since those images, but I am going to also have to dock points for characters that I can only remember in the stories have read as being without clothes such as Barby Koala. But then again these characters might just be "old, out-dated, niche characters" -_-
Personally I don't care about the redesign except this one thing, it is pointless. As Ian states above "Pants aren't going ruin her character" but they are not going to make a difference regardless. If Sally is indeed a ""old, out-dated, niche character" that no amount of clothing is going to alter that and I am personally on the side that says that she is still am awesome character that does need to be modernized for the "hip, young crowd".
And if it is really causing this much of an uproar then why bother with it when it is obviously not sitting well with with a large portion of your fan base. There IS a reason we don't have this Superman [link] or this Spiderman [link] or this Wonder Woman [link] and ect, ect. People enjoy iconic design for characters they know and love and changing it is basically the equivalent of going into the house of someone with OCD and tilting the pictures 5 degrees. It just annoys them until things go back the way they are suppose to be and have been since someone came messed everything up, figuratively speaking.
I mean blank statement, no negotiation, regardless of the situation statements like that is essentially one of the main things that's destroyed the Sonic game franchise for so many years until recently, don't you think that by forcing some of the larger mistakes of the game into the comic, that you're only going to hurt it in the long run?
I mean come on Flynn, the reason why recolors flood the Sonic fandom is because a huge chunk of the characters in the games are edited base models of each other, so the fans simply followed their example. How is it helping the comic characters by for example, turning Sally into an edited version of Amy from the Olympics?
Now if the redesigns ended up being a mandate by SEGA where they said to SEGA-fy them or kill them without wiggle room, that is an entirely other situation, but if you are honestly the main figure head behind all of the redesign stuff, it would be nice just to know.
Sexier.
That by itself deserves a llama.
[link]
Then it would be good. It would truly look like Sally, despite her new design.
But really, I am excited for the new design. I am hoping this will open new opportunities for, not just Sally, but the SatAM crew in general; to bring refreshing new perspectives from, not just new fans (and HOPEFULLY those who hate her for vague reasons), but Sega as well (Like Sally and crewinthegamesPLEAAAASE!!).
I realize this is only the first draft, but seriously...if you guys ever make a new design, I just know some people will whine and complain "WAAAH!! WHY DIDN'T YOU USE OLDER DESIGN? THIS ONE SUUUUUX!!"
I'm calling it.
It really is my concerns.
It could be just annoying to see that in teenage super heroes comics... But EVEN in a kid comics ?! Yes it's a social issue.
The boy is the norm, the default, the standard. And the girl is the abnormality, the one needing adjustment. It's not acceptable even if you think it's normal because we do that from 70 years.
And beside, when Sally was the leader, adding to the impulsive Sonic, she was a real female role model and it's very important to give that kind of character to children. It should be the responsibility of companies as Sega.
Many people don't realize how the character is exceptional in the comics landscape, but still she is used for the same trope you can read of batgirl in Batman or whatever female in x-men...
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Disney made an important thing with Tinkerbell, they made her a smart fierce engineer in their "faeries" franchise. It's still at core a girl franchise and she's a role model, doing stuff only male characters could do before. It is important.
Hasbro (my little pony reboot and others efforts) and Disney are both trying to provide role model girls characters with their own goals and motivations beyond simply being a girl with curves of a girl.
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Truly, Archie provided me the excuse to push that issue, but it concerns a lot more than simply that cute sonic comic. Still, it does matter than Archie (or just Ian) realized the global hypocrisy.
Wow.. It have to be said.
It saddens me a little, but it's the whole truth, there is hypocrisy here and not simply by Sega. Thank you a lot to speak about it.
Well Sally was the only one cartoon female character in a actual commercial product with a design similar to male cartoons ones...
So that is set in stone, it will not ruin the character and her personality. Okay.
Still, you should keep the fur cheek. Really you have to keep lines to play with it in arts and give her a little originality other Amy, Rouge, Cream and other identical girly Sega characters.
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Thanks a lot for your answers, it's really appreciated and explains a lot about Archie's concerns.
And yes, BONE reference for the win!
With all the "Hate" it is nice to see some love.
........ Wooooooooooooow..... Just.... woooooooooooooooooow.
Not a feminist here , but it comes off as a signal the male character are normal simply by default of being male which is true for most Entertainment , while the females are not natural simply by default of being born female which is sexist . Which to be fair is everything if the female character is a leader she subject to criticism if she in love she must be a horrible person .That most Entertainment though including stuff like looney tunes . so that a wider social issue lol.. not a specific criticism
Anyway I am done lol
To be fair most of the female character in Sega are throw away disposable characters anyway usually why most attempts at story fail even bioware couldn't cobble a story together from the RPG .
Anyway my current thoughts on the teaser she looks too young looks like Amy .
So I think many complaints against the design are valid , change.Sally orignal character if memory serve me correct always had this brainy girl power thing going for her (Bit like twilight Sparkle from My Little pony ) with just enough curves to actually be a girl without taking the cheap route of sticking eyelashes on a male model . Which is why she was popular orignally . But profile was female ,She was Not just a boy with eyelashes . She was a leader and that always a problem with fantasy media that play it safe and either try to put a clear cut Tomboy or a Male hero to make them more Heroic by identifying being male as a neccesity for being heroic . If the female character don't fit that role , or other wise there regulated to damsel in distresses or useless tag along character to play the girlfriend role to the more interesting male hero ,
It also why something like my little pony became so popular it made female character that didn't get regulated to the same crappy gender roles scraficing feminity for herosim, I can argue the same for show like Avatar the Last Air-bender Female cast . Ty Lee Mai Sokki ,etc
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Think my main criticism of the new design would be is she suppose to be a leader of the freedom fighters and 17 ? Might be just the style the artist drew it in but she looks like Amy Age and not 4 years her senior the gloves look like Amy gloves to . Could be just the style though can't say ,Always was more a fan of Spaz with his attention to detail and anatomy [link] Style ,than the more simplistic cartoon style. With rmassive overly sized hands [link]
Anyway that my two cents ... hm well someone above did have a point making the comic more like the games is a horrible idea . Take inspiration sure (Love sonic cd would like to see more zones history explored
Honestly, the character looks fine either way and that there's always a time for changes as well. Plus, seeing how most of the characters have gotten some updates to their appearances, it's only fair.
I hope Snively's not in that little box forever, though, he's sorta my favorite... Him and Eggman. The Sonic Universe arc with him is what got me reading again, and got me to go back through the backissues to get caught up.
Don't let comic reader's impatience with stories get you down. Sometimes people just assume the worst without waiting to read the next issue. It's tiresome, but what can you do?
Growing up with sonic stuff from the very day he hit the genesis has given me a lot to look at. The comic has been my favorite rendition, simply because I feel like it's grown as I have, while the games are somewhat variable in their focus. Still fun to play, but if I want to get into an adventure or read something fun to my kids, then the comic is where it's at.
(No, I'm not implying this is the finalized design, but rather where you're headed/going for)
And there is a need, as I've explained already.
By "need", I meant was there anyone higher up forcing you to change their looks, not your "feeling" they 'needed' to change. So yeah, I read that paragraph explaining the reasons why, and they weren't any good as far as explaining a "need". If there's anything I've missed, by all means, plz provide a link to whatever else you've posted, as I've read this entire journal, and it's filled with answers that lead to more questions. Questions like:
- If the characters need to look (as horribly crappy) like the Sonic Adv/X characters, who determined that? You? If "yes", then there was no "need". You simply did it because you wanted to.
- If you're aware of the hypocrisy of clothing the females of a furry fandom while leaving the males running around naked in all but only their shoes and gloves, then why add to it unless you're told to by someone(s)? If there's no additional valid information I'm missing, then yes, you simply did cave into the "soccer moms" but refuse to admit it.
I've been a fan of the Sonic franchise since I was 12, and here I am 17 years later, not at all bored with Sally's design. Could she use some other clothes? Sure. A drastic overhaul? Lord no. And looking more like an X character? There's no verbally appropriate sentence or phrase to describe the levels of objection to that from someone with a decent grasp of character design, story writing, or aesthetic perspective. Again, it's by your own admission that she is now to look more like an X character (a style notable for it's in your face/hyper/super-cute fashion) in her redesign, hopefully you're not assuming that I'm just going by the revealed concept art.
I'm not a flynn basher either, as I actually liked most (you can probably read as all - not sure about who's responsible for the death of the previous robotnik to be replaced with the horrible joke of a clown villain, the japanese version Eggman, and his not to at all be taken serious enemy minion redesigns replacing the classic and awesome swatbots, nor do I have the energy to research it) of your stories up until this one detail.
It's not just that it's changing, it's degrading. Ian specifically stated that he put forth the idea, meaning it's his fault that she's going through this change. I have heard from other people that Sega or higher ups are forcing a standard of a female dress code, and if true, I'd get off his back forever about it.
I don't care if Ian dismisses my accusations and assumptions, if he simply didn't sound like he was BSing us in some form or fashion, I probably wouldn't even be here on his page. We already know he's "hiding" stuff from us, hence the hush hush nature of the reveal, and that's fine, but when he explains himself and his reasons, you could literally walk through the well sized holes in his explanation. An answer should not lead to more questions. Suspicions also arise, when you place a very convincing argument (defense against soccer mom theory) next to a paragraph where you partially shoot yourself down (hypocrisy of female/male furry dress codes).
There's absolutely nothing appealing about the Jap version of Sonic's universe, BESIDES the classic genesis game's gameplay, and the three main character's Sonic, Tails and Knuckles visual artwork redesigns (though Eggman's redesign was pretty much needed). Old Archie comics did Sega/Sonic Team a favor by expanding on the whole "mechanize my friends and I'll come and free them" into "environmental protection vs Technological Advancement pushing nature out of existence", and Ian Flynn attempting to embrace the Jap versions more by "updating" the American characters to suit their visual standards is a complete insult to the continuity of the archie sonic comic up until this point. Some of those (jap based) characters not only have their games that they star in, they've been allowed to disgrace the archie comics with their presence as well. The archie characters just get the comic and nothing more (maybe a few unofficial hacked sonic genesis roms). Now they're imposing yet again.
She's getting a minor cosmetic change which most likely will mean...nothing. She'll look different that's it.
I -am- sorry if it sounds like I'm blowing smoke, but I can't get into details. Some folks would prefer I not say anything at all, but then I'd be accused of ignoring people. I can't win for trying, but I try anyway.
As for this: "It's not just that it's changing, it's degrading. Ian specifically stated that he put forth the idea, meaning it's his fault that she's going through this change."
To draw a parallel: we're driving in a car and we're about to hit a tree, killing everyone with us. I suggest we change course to avoid the tree. So, yeah, it's my fault everyone survived for a future drive. And, thankfully, the driver listened and took us in a nice direction. I'm sorry if you don't like the new scenery my suggestion brought.
...wow that's an extended metaphor.
Honestly, you know what I think? People shouldn't complain about the state of the book if they aren't in a position to challenge it. Unless they have crucial evidence as to why something is bad, they don't need to say anything. "I don't like X because Logical Reason." That's how debates pan out.
On the other hand, "I don't like X because I don't WANT to like X and I'll never accept it" isn't a logical argument. And for your sake, you better have some type of evidence to back it up.
That's all I have to say about this, I guess.
Also, you know all the people who hate your guts? Guess what? They've probably never been the head writer of a popular comic based on a video game franchise filled with fans that demand satisfaction until they resort to threatening or insulting the characters that they're supposed to be FANS of.
P.S. After reading your Bumbleking post, I am a huge supporter of SonicFAST! Can I join your SonicXFAST DA club, Ian?
You know what I respected about Archie Sonic? The characters were not clones assembled from a lazy template.
As a fan of the original SatAM, I'd much rather them stick around with SEGA designs. It's more than likely due to some sort of mandate. If the characters need to adapt to survive in the comic, then so be it.
If Ian were to kill off the SatAM cast, rather than change them up a little bit, the fan outrage would be overwhelming.
Would you really rather the characters dead? If you have ever read the Sonic X comics, that's what it would probably end up being like if the Archie cast was taken out. Most fans of the comic...wouldn't want that, I'd imagine.
You're allowed to have your opinion, I just think that the SatAM characters living on in the comics with redesigns is way better than them being dead.
As you can see, there are going to be people who cry and whine, but just let em fume a bit. I bet they won't stop buying the comics or the games. I'm sure you've seen my posts on the boards (as GrandMasterGalvatron/Aquaslash?Aqua Buster), but I'm really excited about this, and the other things that are happening now. When the SU story was announced, I just about jumped up and did the Carlton. Came right of the heels of Metal Knuckles finally being used, and a whole arc of Silver too. I'm guessing the rest of the old cast will be updated eventually, and I'm excited to see all of the changes. I'm hoping the design for Sally is mostly final cause it looks really great.
Keep on doing what you guys do man!
Thanks for clearing that up
I like pantless Sally...but it's ok...at least she won't be a psycho robot
As for Sally's design, I didn't say much on the last journal, but if the artist who came up with the design is listening (well, assuming he is..), may I be allowed to share my thoughts, and if I may be so bold, perhaps offer feedback and suggestions for things they might consider in finalizing it? I don't want to seem cheeky or disrespectful.